Dave Matthews and Brian Calhoun teamed up for Chickapig, a good old-fashioned game. After the success of that game, they teamed up for 25 Outlaws, a poker game. (Below are some excerpts from an interview with Dave and Brian, by Steve Baltin)
Matthews: There is an interesting element and I think the natural part of it for me is that when I was in high school I just liked to make s**t. So I think [that was] the common ground, among other things, that Brian and I had when I met him. He made a guitar and I started playing his guitar. I was like, "This guy makes stuff." That part of it is pure still. Why I started playing guitar was pure. Now there is the thing of it's my job as well. But the opportunity to make stuff for the sake of it and knowing that it wouldn't be judged on the same page or in the same courtroom was really fun. When he brought Chickapig to my house the first time in this little wooden box he built in his house and we played it I was sort of stunned cause I would actually play this game if someone brought it that wasn't my friend. It's a really good game. And we played it many, many times, my kids and my family and it evolved. It was interesting. Then when he came much later after Chickapig had evolved and we started working on, when he told me his idea for 25 Outlaws, they're really not related, other than they require critical thinking on some level. I thought he's insane in just the right way to be able to come up with two games that are so different, but are so compelling. For me, it's also about the opportunity to make s**t that people don't expect me to make. This is nothing like making a guitar.
Calhoun: Nothing like it, but the common thread is what you hit on. Like when I got into guitars, I'm sure it's the same as when he got into music, I wasn't thinking this is going to be my career. It was a cool hobby. And I dropped out of college too. I just loved it and that became a career. But even once I was making money at it, it was still so fun. It wasn't like a business really. And then I like making things. We made a life-size rhino over the course of a summer, just bolting logs together. So whether something on that scale or this scale it's like, "I wonder if I can make a board game" after playing a really bad board game one day,
Matthews: It was pretty funny, he told me, "I was playing this game and it was the s**tiest game I've ever played with all these people. This game sucks. Then I saw on the side, it said, '10 million copies sold.' And I said, 'What?' This is bulls**t. I can make a game." And he came up with Chickapig, which is even cooler. I like vengeance inventions.
Calhoun: He'd make jokes, "Gonna be the next Monopoly." It's not why we were doing it. But then it started growing, outside of my circle, outside of his fan base. It made more sense and it became this thing that brings people together. We got so much feedback from teachers and parents and that type of thing that I think it does a little good in the world because it gets you off your phone.
Baltin: Tell me about 25 Outlaws.
Calhoun: I guess you know he drew everything, which was great. But the first time we played this it was literally...
Matthews: Ripped up pieces of paper. He came in and he said, "Matthews, I think I got a new game." And I'm like, "Who has two good ideas for a game?" And he walks in and then he explains it and we start playing with the neighbor's kid and I'm like, "This is better than the last game." It's so different. The company he started working with, Buffalo Games, smallish, but still big company in Upstate New York, they got into Chickapig, they were excited about that. But when he explained this game to him they got way more excited.
NOTE: Both games are extremely popular and are available to buy on line.